Those present: Fred, Bob, Bernie, Alan, Dot, John Morgan-Water Superintendent, Dennis Russell-Asst. Water Superintendent, Jim Mitchell-Town Engineer, John Tabner-Town Water Attorney

The meeting began at 7:50 P.M.

A discussion was held with Mr. Tabner regarding the adoption of the resolution for the Main Street Improvement Plan for the Historic District. Dot said she had spoken with Bill Keniry about doing a short SEQR form for that project. John asked if the plan involved any public works. She said the Committee is considering lighting or a walking path. John said if that is the case, we should do a short SEQR. If it was completely paper work and administrative, we could go without a SEQR. Any change that had any effect at all requires a SEQR. Fred asked if we would need a public hearing. John asked how were we going to handle the financing on it. Fred said we have some money available through a member item grant. John said he did not believe we would have to have a public hearing. If we were going to get into something where we would be borrowing money or something of that nature, that would be different. Dot said that as they decide to implement things that would involve money. Would that be the time to do that? John said right now the plan is not a Type 1 SEQR but as the plan goes along, depending what it is, it may become a Type 1 and we may have to do a SEQR again because we might need a coordinated review. John asked if we would need any permits from any agencies. Dot stated that this is basically to adopt the plan and if we adopt any ideas of the plan, then we would need to know what to do. John said that if we were going to need other agencies to approve things or get permits, then you would have a question of a coordinated review, that would put us into a Type 1. Dot said there might be some digging in the right-of-way, if we do the lighting. John feels the short SEQR Form is fine at this time. Dot has a draft of the resolution. She will print it up and have the attorneys look at it before the Board takes any action.

The workshop continued regarding the application for outside users.
Fred stated that we have the Outside User Application. We were not using it during the moratorium. At the last Town Board Meeting, anticipating that there might be applications coming and we have one pending right now, the Board decided we did not want to act on any agreements until we came up with a process. The application we have now does not seem to work all the time because we have had different situations that occured. What does it take to amend or write up a procedure strictly for the water district? Do we have to enact a Local Law? What would it take to do that?

John Tabner responded that we should have a local law setting up the specifications and what we are going to require for outside users. We should require a list of what they have to do to install. Our present agreement deals with the corporation stop into the house. One of the big things that has to be taken into consideration is that there has to be a main. We need to have an easement for that pipe. If John has to work on a pipe as a routine item and isn't on a town easement, you could put your insurance in jeopardy and you could have a question of spending town funds on private property. Once we have an easement, we would be required to take care of the main. The homeowner would be responsible from the corporation into the house.

Fred said that the Board has inherited a lot of inconsistencies. We have people that have extended mains and people that ran copper tubing with approval. They are pre-existing, non-conforming. John Tabner said we could ignore the pre-existing things and grandfather them in. He would not recommend that. You could do a sunset provision in your local law saying they have to hook up by a certain time by meeting our standards. Fred stated that for several homes, previous supervisors have signed off on this agreement. Could those people come back and say I have an agreement and I don't have to comply? John Tabner stated that we could extend the district and include the outsider user's property in this and that would terminate the agreement. You could terminate the agreement upon the failure of outside users to fulfill the terms of the agreement. If they want to continue to get service, they would have to meet the standards of the district.

Fred asked the distance from the real main on Vines Road to Swaggertown Road. John Morgan said it would be 700 - 1000 feet. Fred said the situation there is that copper tubing is servicing a house. People across the street want water under a hardship. We told them we didn't want any more "spaghetti line" situations. You would have to run a main 700 - 800 feet which would necessitate two copper lines being severed and re-tapped under these kind of agreements. John Tabner said with the "spaghetti lines" either you can't furnish water to the other house or you are only going compound the problem. I think you are going to have to say to all of them, we are going to make it in the district and you will have to finance the main and you will have to put it in. Most engineers aren't happy with a 2" main. John Morgan said minimum specs. are 6". John Tabner said he has had municipal projects that are 2" mains. John Morgan said we have some 2" pipe but not listed as a main. John Tabner said we have a problem and we have to solve it and it doesn't sound like we can do it with more "spaghetti lines". That will compound the problem.

Jim Mitchell asked where we were with the Water Study Committee. They were going to look at the water district map to determine if the stretch of water main along Stage Road was in the district or out. Bob said the Committee had not had a meeting since that was mentioned. Fred said that ties into the Guido application. He wants to tap the transmission line. John Morgan said that is correct.

John Morgan said we had started a process for an extension. Jim Mitchell said about a year ago we put a map together, identifying all the residents who were using water as an outside user. There are around 15. They are scattered. Jim Mitchell said that he thought we were going to do the map, plan and report and at some point those outside users were going to be included in the district. What we will have to deal with is the next person that has a hardship and wants to connect to the line. Will he connect as an outside user or are we going to extend the district for that house? John Tabner said he would discourage us from having outside users because someday DEC might crack down on it and once a person gets water their problem is solved and they may no longer be there to support your extension to solve not only their problem but their neighbors problem.

Jim Mitchell said our agreement reads that the people in the district are responsible from the corporation stop into the house. The people out of the district are responsible for the whole main. John Morgan said that we are trying to come up with a new form. There won't be an outside user. Bob said it would be an application for admission into the water district through an extension. John Morgan said there was an old application for outside users and a newer application for outside users. Fred stated that the newer application assumes that the main is in front of the house. John Tabner stated that they have no more responsibility than the person in the water district. Fred said at Vines Road, the corporation is 700' down the road from the curb box to attach a main. John Morgan said that if you pull Dugid's contract, it says he is responsible from the corporation. Ballance and Eldeen have the same situation. Jim Mitchell said that is an individual service. Where you get in trouble is when you start to serve more people from one service. That you can't do.

Fred asked what do we do from an engineering point of view to clean this up. Alan said that anything that is in the town right-of-way should be written as a main in our spec. sheet. Mr. Tabner said that we want to stop creating problems and then go back and try and clean up the problems. John Morgan suggested that the application have a buy-in fee. Mr. Tabner said that if we are going to have a buy in fee, we will definitely have to have a local law for that.

Fred said that if an outside user comes in today, they do not get a bill until January of 2005. Should there be some kind of a charge to outside users when they tap. They are getting a free ride for over year. John Tabner feels we should have a connection and tapping fee because when they put that pipe in, whether you call it a main or not, John Morgan has to check that and make sure it is acceptable. Fred said he feels that the rest of the district is subsidising that outside user from August of 2003 until January of 2005. John Tabner said every outside user that comes on board costs the Water Department some money. As far as the lag between when the water service starts and when the water service is paid for, that is easy to rectify. Have them pay a sum in advance.

Dennis said in Glenville there is a tapping fee and a permit fee. To tap the line, it is $300.00 for a 3/4" line and $50.00 for a permit fee. John Tabner explained that the law says that taxes are a revenue measure and the Town Board, as the legislative body, sets the taxes. As far as fees are concerned, they are to reimburse the town. Bob said that the Water Study Committee talked about a $300.00 inspection and installation fee, plus materials. Fred said that since we are thinking along those lines that John, Jim and Bob need to get together and work up a draft of a local law that can start to clean this up, including a fee schedule.

Jim Mitchell said the last Water Study Committee meeting he attended talked about the number of services that would be available for future connection right now based on the capacity of the tank. They started looking at the Water District Map and realized there was a lot of property along the existing main that is probably within the district. If that property is within the district, then there is no more capacity for outside users because you have to reserve the service for people that are in the district. John Tabner said you have to have surplus capacity to serve outside users.

Fred said he heard that the district is as wide as the transmission line on the feeder the comes along the Alplaus up to Florence. Those people who tapped that transmission line along Old Stage Road are all treated as outside users. He said the application we have received is a request to tap the transmission line. It would then be considered an outside user if the district is only as wide as the pipe. John Morgan said the other six people on that line will be put in the district on that map that we are making up for Extension #5.

Fred said Mr. Guido has submitted his application. He needs to give him some kind of an answer. Are we going to let him tap or make him wait?

Alan stated that we are still waiting for the data from the engineer and the Water Study Committee to really understand where we are with our storage and our system. John Morgan said that we need to have a 24-hour water supply for the residents of the town. John Tabner said we need to have excess capacity to go outside the district or extend the district.

Fred said that prior to the moratorium, John would get an application, bring it to the supervisor and the supervisor would sign it. The Board decided it didn't want to proceed that way any more. Now any time an application comes to John, he brings it to me and I bring it to the Board. The Board would decide to approve or deny. We have an application. Are we going to accept, deny or put it on hold?

John Tabner said that once a year we should clean everything up. The time-table should be to get the map, plan and report. Have a public hearing in January. Pass it subject to a permissive referendum. Before the end of February (could not understand). March l they all go on the tax roll. Part of the fee that would be associated with somebody that wants water service would be to repay the town for the administrative work that is necessary to bring them into the district. John Morgan said outside users are paying 1 1/2 times the water rate and an advalorem tax. Fred said Mr. Guido would not be paying on the advalorem for over a year. John Tabner said there is something in the current agreement under 2 c. The agreement Mr. Tabner read from is the old Outside User Agreement. The current agreement reads: The water tax shall be paid upon an annual basis when billed. Bob said that the outside user term will be cleared up when we set up Extension #5.

Jim Mitchell and John Tabner will work together drafting up a local law including regulations and fees. Extension #5 could be approved by the early part of next year. John Morgan has about 7 people that are interested in hooking up. The one on Hillandale is on a main. One is on Old Stage. One is on Stage Road with a main on the other side of the road. If the fire department materializes it will be an extension. There are two on Vines Road on "spaghetti lines".

John Tabner stated that the ones that are on "spaghetti lines" the problem that would arise would be -- are you hurting the people that are already on it? The ones that are already connected should not be a problem with DEC because you are curing a problem that exists. For the new ones coming in, we would have to be able to justify that there is enough capacity for them. Fred asked how would we be treating the potential of John Simoni wanting water on Maple Avenue. John Tabner said that if we would be running pipe 1200' we would have to take a look at an extension.

Bob asked if we could consider the cases that are on a transmission line or a main, where you don't have the need to lay additional main, could we consider those cases now and those that require the addition of a main would have to wait until we get the specs worked out and the new permit request? Jim Mitchell feels we need to determine how many more we can hook up. Bob is waiting for the numbers from the Water Study Committee. Jim Mitchell said at some point there won't be capacity any more. John Morgan said the Committee has supposedly gone over the whole boundary and come up with the empty parcels, which is 70 some.

Fred asked if the Board wanted him to bring Mr. Guido's application to the Board for approval at the Town Board Meeting or should he call him and tell him we have still not reached a decision. Bob suggested that those applications that are on a main and can be handled easily, that we do those applications that come in that are just a tap. Those applications that come in that require mains, they would need the new form for the permit. We will develop that as quickly as possible.

Dot expressed concerned over the capacity of our water system. She asked if this lot had been figured in at this point or did they figure in just those that are already in the water district. John Morgan said this one had been figured in.

The Board decided that Mr. Guido's application would be approved and acted on at the Town Board Meeting.

The meeting was adjourned at 9:02 P.M.

Respectfully submitted,
Gail Hanchar
Town Clerk