COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING

STEERING COMMITTEE

April 5, 2004

Present: Nan Stolzenburg, Don Meltz, Steve Caine, Deborah Herrin, Andrea Herrin, Marv Schorr, David Adams, Jim Leupold, Doug Flynn, Dean Durst, Bill Heilman, Dave Wood, Leonard Wessell, Gary Vandehorst, Christy Schrader, Peggy Gains, Sally Ellms, Rick Smith, Jenna Smith, Dot Mitchell, Dawn Szurek, Guy Mitchell, Midge Dube, Al Larue, Maria McCulloch.

The meeting was opened at 7:00 P.M. by Steve Caine who went over the agenda for the meeting.

The minutes of the March meeting were approved as written.

Don Meltz gave an update on GIS work. He showed approximately 20 maps with the different layers that are available. There is a CD available for the members to review if they wish. Don asked that the committee look at the map to make sure the names of roads are correct. Deborah Herrin asked for volunteers to help with the accuracy of the maps. Marv Schorr, Christy Schrader, and Dave Adams all said they would help. Using different layers, the maps show roads, town and property boundaries, topography, drainage patterns, streams, slopes, and watersheds. The maps also show NY state DEC wetlands, as well as the National wetlands and hydrant soils. The maps show flood plains and the Alplaus Kill that runs through the town. One of the maps show the bedrock, shale and limestone layers in the town, while other overlays show loose material over the bedrock, sand and gravel layers, and the quality farming soils in the town. Don pointed out that Charlton has some of the best farming soils in the state. Another map shows properties in the town that currently are classified as agriculture and the ag district. A map that was taken from the soils map shows sewage limitations for leach fields. Don showed a property class map which included residential property, agricultural, vacant lots, public services, and schools; a zoning map, and a map with water districts showing water lines. Another map that Don is working on shows town properties, the fire departments, schools, and the historic district. More can be added to it. Dave Adams asked Don where he got most of his information for the maps and Don said that NYS has a GIS clearing house website where most of the information is available. The other site he received information from is Cornell University. He got the flood information from FEMA, the national wetlands information from the federal government, and the USGS for the topography mapping.

Nan said in terms of the information gathering, she is waiting for some outstanding topic information to come in, but she has about 90% of the information and is ready to move forward with starting the interviews and pulling profile information together.

Nan emailed the summary results of the workshop and demographic data to the members. Nan said that all the positive and negative information is shown. The information was transcribed word for word without editing. Nan asked the committee to review all the workshop information and she will email the missing information as soon as she receives it. Dave Adams asked Nan if she intends to reduce the level of information received. She said she can massage the information some more, but it will be up to the committee exactly how detailed the information should be that goes in the Comprehensive Plan. Nan stated that she kept the information detailed because she didn't want to lose anyone's words, but if the committee wants her to, she can summarize it into a statement and take it down another level. Dave Wood asked Nan how she would handle a topic where there are two opposite viewpoints, and she said she would have to show both sides. Nan agreed to take the workshop summary to the "next level" to make it clearer for readers, and after she has done so, we would put it on the website. Nan said she is still working on the demographic information and will make charts or graphs to show trends, and will get the information to the committee as the data is updated.

Deborah Herrin showed "the places of concern" map and would like to summarize the sticky notes that she has, and put them on a spread sheet with the map so none of the sticky notes are lost. She will put the map in the Town Hall and let residents know they can come in to look at the map and add to it if they have concerns. This information will be put in the newsletter to let residents know the map is in the Town Hall. Nan suggested putting an explanation with the map, so people know what information the committee is looking for and how to put up their sticky note.

Steve asked Nan to explain the idea behind the focus groups. Nan wants to target certain groups about issues that are of a concern to them. The focus group is 10-15 people and is approximately 1+ hours of concentrated time where she would ask questions on a broad level about subjects that concern that particular group, and then get more detailed information. Notes will be taken and recorded, but no ones name or opinions will be connected to what they say. This will help to focus in on important issues of specific groups. The groups that were discussed were farmers, seniors, owners/managers of businesses in the town, and teenagers. Looking at the list, Dave Adams believes that a large number of residents are being left out, and that is the ordinary citizen. He thinks they should have their own focus group. Steve Caine stated that the focus groups have unique situations that the mass doesn't have and he questioned how you would pick a focus group from the population. Dave feels that by including residents who aren't in any of these particular focus groups, you could get more in-depth discussion and information that you won't get from the survey. Nan said if the committee wanted to do that, they could focus on different areas of the town such as the Hamlet, or the northern section of town. Steve said the hope was to do the focus groups on one Saturday with each group having a 1+ hour session and Nan leading each session. A lengthy discussion ensued about having focus groups from different sections of the town, and how to split up the town to get these groups. Splitting the town by fire districts and voting districts was discussed. Needing a second day for the groups and all of the logistics that have to be considered was also discussed. After more consideration, it was decided to stay with the original plan of having seniors, business owners/managers, farmers and teenagers. Another discussion took place regarding the farmers focus group. Rick Smith and Dave Wood, both farmers, said that this is the busiest time of the year for them, and it would be very difficult to have a focus group for farmers on a Saturday until July at the earliest.

Recruitment for the focus groups was discussed. Nan said advertising could be done in the town newsletter, posters could be put up, and notices could be put in the newspapers. The people would have to call a phone number to sign up, and it would be first come, first served until the 15 slots are filled. Another way would be more selective where members for the focus group would be asked to participate. Christy Schrader suggested doing a combination of both ways; having a call in sign up first, and if the group isn't filled by a certain deadline, then committee members can call others to fill the slots. It was decided to advertise, take sign ups, and then recruit to fill any spaces available. The deadline for signing up for a focus group will be two weeks, and one week for recruitment to fill spaces. It will be advertised in the newsletter, the newspaper, the website, the radio, and posters will be put up. A lot of discussion took place on selecting a date for the focus groups. There were a lot of conflicts between Memorial Day weekend, Founders Day weekend, farming schedules and personal schedules. It was suggested scratching Saturday for the focus groups, and hold them in lieu of the monthly committee meetings. The business owners and farmers will be held on Monday, May 3^rd at 7:00 P.M. The point of contact for the business owners is Dean Durst with Doug Flynn being the backup. The point of contact for the farmers is Rick Smith with Guy Mitchell being the backup. The senior citizens and teens will be held on Monday, June 7^th, at 7:00 P.M. The points of contact for the seniors are Midge Dube, with Peggy Gains being the backup. The points of contact for the teens are Andrea Herrin, with Jenna Smith being the backup. Marv Schorr will take care of putting the notice in the newspaper. A reminder letter will be mailed to those who sign up for the focus groups.

The water study discussion was next on the agenda. Nan contacted Sterling Environmental Engineering, P.C., and Alpha Geoscience to find out what it would take, and how much it would cost to have a water study done. She asked each company what they would need to do to find where the water is, how much there is, and make future recommendations for same. Each company provided their recommendations, the kind of studies and analysis that would need to be done, and the estimated cost. Nan suggested the committee talk with each company and decide what needs to be done. A representative from Sterling has already spoken with Bob Lipiello and John Morgan. The town needs to know where the water is, how much water there is, and from where the water is recharged. Dave Adams has had experience with Alpha Geoscience and speaks highly of their work. Dave questioned if and whether there is a budget for the tasks that are being proposed, and wondered where Nan stands on her fee and if she is tracking her expenditures, and if the committee is within the bounds to date. Nan said that everything is within the budget at this point. Steve Caine told Dave that the water study is not in the budget and he has notified the town board, and that the committee will bring a proposal to them with a cost. The town board will make the final decision whether or not to do a water study. Steve will get a copy of Nan's original proposal to Dave. Deborah Herrin stated that she feels it's very important to have the water study as part of the planning process. She feels it's cost effective to get this information now and take advantage of the GIS work that's being done as part of the comprehensive plan, and take advantage of the aquifer studies that were just released to the towns around Charlton. Steve stated that the water study will be a technical study showing where the water is, how much there is, how it's recharged and what is the geographic area. Bill Heilman stated that it's up to the committee to make the recommendation to the town board and they will make the final decision. Peggy Gains commented that Sterling's proposal states they will "create a map that identifies areas of poor well yield and quality" and believes there will be a lot of landowners who will not want anyone to come in and test their wells. Nan said that the town is more concerned with water quantity as opposed to water quality, so water quality wouldn't have to be looked at if it's not an issue. Dawn Szurek asked what authority the committee has to say that someone's water should be tested? Nan said the town board first has to decide whether they want to do the water study, and then the parameters would be worked out with whoever is hired to do the study. Nan suggested having a subcommittee sit down with Alpha Geoscience and Sterling, ask more questions and home in on what the committee wants them to do and have them develop the proposal further and give to the town board. Steve asked for volunteers to meet with the two companies and Jim Leupold said he would. Jim will contact Bob Lipiello. They should define the scope of work for evaluation of the town water resources. Christy Schrader asked if we're considering the water study to find an aquifer and/or the recharge area, and what we will do with the information once it's completed. Nan said that some towns, when they know there is a recharge area, have done an aquifer recharge overlay zone that adds a layer of protection for land use so there aren't inappropriate uses where the waters going in the ground. Some are adjusting the density in the different zones to the water supply, and others are using the information for keeping better town records.

Next on the agenda was the Image Survey decision. Nan gave a brief overview of the Image Survey, which is a survey that gets people's visual preferences for scenes, buildings, streetscapes, etc. It shows illustrations of something that is difficult to define. The benefits are getting more insight into the vision of what the people of Charlton want. Last month Steve and Deborah "after speaking with some others) had recommended that this Image Survey be done because it is an objective evaluation that the residents come up with, and it also involves the residents in the process. Dave Adams asked Nan if she uses pictures of Charlton. Nan said that 90% of the pictures will be from somewhere other than Charlton. Residents are asked to rate types of scenes that they look at on an everyday basis. Dave also asked Nan how the information from this Image Survey would be implemented. Nan said that certain design aspects are covered in site plan review and there could be design guidelines for the town. It's not just looking at the architecture, it's the width of the streets, the type of sign, the setbacks, etc. Steve said the general consensus that he got last month was that the committee wanted to do the Image Survey and asked if all felt the same. Marv Schorr said he isn't sure the survey has any benefit and Dave Adams agreed. Gary Vandehorst's concern is that the town will start to tell property owners what they can and can't do. His concern is that someone, for example, will want to put their house in a woodlot and not the 10 acre alfalfa field, but the town will look at it and say there is a better view out of the alfalfa field and that's where your house is going to go. Steve Caine feels it's a tremendous leap between stating visual preferences and having a zoning law that says you have to put your house only in fields. Dave Wood said that he shares the concerns of the others. He's not against it, but he still shares the concerns of hesitation based on what could happen later on and not what the survey shows. Dawn Szurek agreed. Deborah Herrin feels it's important to have a common visual language to help the town. Dave Wood doesn't know who this Image Survey would help. Dawn Szurek said the words common visual language to her sound like possible future regulations. Steve feels we should gather as much information as we can so that the committee can make informed decisions. Guy Mitchell said that the town of Malta has done this same thing and they push everyone to a colonial look. He doesn't believe the town has a right to tell people what kind of dwelling they can or can't build. He feels it's a difficult decision to spend the money to find out what people like when we have no right enforcing those opinions on anyone. Marv Shorr pointed out that presently we do enforce certain things, such as the height of buildings, the setbacks and the size of lots. Jim Leupold asked Nan if there is a downside of not doing the Image Survey. Nan said there was no downside. Conducting the survey does not compel the group to take any action it does not feel appropriate. The Image Survey is one tool that can define what people prefer through visualization. Dave Adams stated that he doesn't feel it's necessary to do the Image Survey and Steve disagreed, but at the same time, Steve said he realizes that there are concerns, and some people on the committee are afraid that the Image Survey may lead to the infringement of rights. Dave said he understands wanting to gather more information but not without having a good concept of what you will do with the information. Dave Wood said his concern is not doing the Image Survey, but what will happen with the Image Survey. This concern was shared by others. Steve reminded the committee that they will be the ones who will receive the tabulated information and make the decision on what to do with that information. It seems most like the town the way it is, and Steve said that to keep it this way, action has to be taken to identify what the people like so that things won't change in the future. Sally Ellms said we will be having a written survey where people will be rating how they feel about certain topics, and the Image Survey is just a way to "see" what they feel. She doesn't feel as threatened by the Image Survey as some of the others in the group. Steve asked Nan if she would show the group some sample slides and results, and the subject will be tabled for now. Nan will try to put something together and either send it via email or on paper.

The approval of the written survey was next on the agenda. Steve said that Deborah Herrin, Maria McCulloch, Jim Leupold, and Midge Dube have spent hours going through the survey and working on the content and format, and he wanted to thank them for their hard and diligent work. Deborah Herrin stated that on page 5, under Residential Uses she, Steve and Nan felt uncomfortable with having single family houses, lot sizes greater than 2 acres, and single family residences less than two acres. They came up with what they feel is a better way of saying this and need the groups help in doing this. Nan said in her experience, when you ask someone to rate if they have interest, oppose or strongly oppose single family residences on large lots defined as greater than two acres, or on small lots defined as less than two acres, it doesn't really get the answers we're looking for. She would like to find out how people feel about accepting more concentrated development in some areas as a tool to have lower density of development elsewhere. Nan suggested putting single family residences on large lots where environmental limitations exist and single family residences on smaller lots where infrastructure exists or no environmental limitations exists. Dave Adams email Nan some suggestions and Nan said they were incorporated into the survey. Dave asked about his question to ask the people their opinion on their satisfaction with how the zoning ordinance has controlled land use. Steve, Deborah and Nan said the survey subcommittee decided not to include the question because it forces the person to assume that the zoning ordinance was the sole control of land use, when so many other things play too v water availability, soil percolation, distance from the northway, and other town government actions. There was a lengthy discussion between Steve and Dave on Dave's question and the reason it wasn't being included in the survey. Christy Schrader suggested putting the zoning ordinance question in survey question #7. Nan thought that survey question #15, where the recreational uses are listed, comparisons could be made between what the people want to see with what the zoning ordinance has, and this would essentially cover Dave's question. Dave Wood questioned the reason for survey question #6 regarding drinking water. Nan said that this will relate to other questions on the survey. People with public water vs. well water will answer the questions differently and have different issues. Dave's other question was regarding questions #13 and #14. He asked if there was a way to change the word negative to positive. Christy Schrader felt the same way. Nan said the positives were included in #4. Christy Schrader stated that in question #4, she thinks active farms and open spaces should be on two separate lines. Nan will make the change. Dave Wood understands the question that is being asked in #13 and #14 but is questioning the image that people with be left with in using the word negative. Deborah Herrin said that the survey will end with "Be a positive force in Charlton's future. Participate in planning," to bring people back to the positive. Dawn Szurek suggested after asking the "what's negative" in a free form format, the next question could be "what's positive". Deborah said they can include that. Christy Schrader didn't like the beginning paragraph of the survey. She feels like it's directing the people, and then when you look at survey questions #10 & #11, it talks about "protect, protect, protect." She feels it's directing the people by saying "protect" because everyone will feel it's important to protect the items mentioned. Nan said it can be reworded to say How important is it for the town of Charlton to review the impacts on the following, then remove the word protect and just list streams, aquifers, hillsides, etc. On question #11, Steve said it's asking people to make a judgment about money, and he believes keeping the word protect is important. Dave Adams and others agreed. Christy Schrader also asked if Charlton is the only city, town, village, without a Comprehensive Plan in Saratoga County as stated in the first paragraph. Steve Caine said that is a fact. Christy doesn't feel that sentence is relevant to the survey. Jim Leupold said by stating every other town in the county has a Comprehensive Plan, it shows how important this is. It appears that Steve, Marv Schorr and Dave Adams have all received different answers about whether every town has a Comprehensive Plan. Steve Caine said he will contact the Saratoga County Planning office again about this matter. Nan suggested that where it says "without this Plan, the Town of Charlton will be subject to future growtha", it can be changed to say "a Comprehensive Plan will enable the Town of Charlton to appropriately deal with future growth and development in a way that reflects the desires of the town." Dave Adams commented that on question #11 it lists expand public water system and one of the options for an answer is using grant money. Dave said that for public water systems the costs are carried by the residents of the water district and no outside funds are used. The discussion ended with a request to send any final "tweaks" to the survey subcommittee no later than April 8^th.

No one had "privilege of the floor" remarks.

The meeting ended at 10:25 P.M.