MINUTES
March 1, 2004

Present: Nan Stolzenburg, Richard Smith, David Wood, Gary Vanderhorst, Dawn Szurek, Dave Adams, Sally Ellms, Steve Caine, Dean Durst, Christy Schrader, Doug Flynn, Maria McCulloch, Jim Leupold, Deborah Herrin, Andrea Herrin, Lynda Battenhausen, Bill Heilman, Midge Dube, Peggy Gains, Marv Schorr and Dot Mitchell.

The meeting was brought to order at 7:00 P.M. by Steve Caine. Steve went over the agenda for the evening. The Minutes from February were approved with changes.

Deborah Herrin informed the group that she identified the different organizations who have jurisdiction over the Town, such as DEC, DOT, etc. She has been collecting information to give to Nan. Deborah asked if anyone else had any information to give to Nan. Marv Schorr stated that he checked on the natural gas exploration that was done in the 70’s. Marv talked with Bill Collier, who was Chairman of the ECC at the time, and he didn’t know anything about it. Several people on the committee do recall something being done in the area, but not necessarily in Charlton. Deborah stated that she doesn’t have the school tax rates for all the school systems. Midge Dube said the Assessor’s office has them. Deborah asked where the committee was with the emergency services. Bill Heilman said he has the information on fire, sheriff, 911, state police, and town police, but wants to speak with Nan at the end of the meeting to find out how she would like the information presented. Linda Battenhausen has information on the libraries and community organizations. Midge Dube and Christy Schrader brought up the adult independent living home on Western Avenue. The home is supervised by the state but is not owned by the state.

Steve said that he and Deborah had some discussions on the GEIS. Image Preference Survey, and photo simulations, and talked to Marv Schorr and Ray Black and received their input. The idea was to not only determine the use of the GEIS in the planning process, but also after the planning process, when it would possibly be used by the ECC or the Planning Board. It was felt the GEIS would not be worth the cost. After Marv and Ray’s recommendations, Steve said they feel the committee should only contract for the Image Preference Survey because it will help define what the towns people prefer and give them input.

Dave Adams asked what the Image Preference Survey would be used for in the plan. Nan stated that it would give more information to help on what the vision is for the town. It will help show what the people of the town want the town to look like.

Once all the information is collected, and a vision is established, you’d compare the current zoning, subdivision and site plan review with the information gathered. If they don’t match, adjustments can be made to make implementing tools more in line with what the community wants.

Dave Adams stated that our current zoning and planning regulations do not specify architecture. He is not in favor of establishing architectural standards that will dictate to people how they will build their houses. Nan said typically architectural standards apply to commercial buildings, which Charlton doesn’t have any of at this time. Dave stated he believes the people of Charlton are happy with the control the zoning and planning boards have. He doesn’t believe the Image Preference Survey will help or be worth the cost and is not in favor of it. Most of the committee favors doing the Image Preference Survey. Dave suggests revisiting the Image Preference Survey discussion after the workshop and after receiving the results of the mailed survey. He is concerned with getting enough people to participate in the workshop and the survey to have a good representative input of what people feel.

Steve stated he believes the more information we can get for what towns people want and do not want the better, and is in favor of the Imaging Preference Survey. Any information received is documented evidence of our townspeople’s views that can be applied to the Comprehensive Plan. The committee is still in the early stage of this process and is not even close to recommending standards or restrictions on anything. Christy Schrader asked when the Image Preference Survey would be done. Nan said it could be done before the survey but can be delayed until the workshop is over and the mailed surveys are returned.

Bill Heilman’s opinion is that he currently likes the town. Looking at all the towns around Charlton, most have a master plan in place. When a developer or agricultural person wants to sell his property and subdivide, they’ll know when they look at Charlton’s Comprehensive Plan what they can and can’t do in the Town. Bill believes after all this is completed, the zoning ordinance will stay intact except for a few modifications.

Dean Durst commented on the Image Preference Survey cost of $975.00. Dean stated if you took all the donated time of the people on the committee, the $975.00 is minimal. Also, if you are going to put together a Comprehensive Plan, you need to take everything into consideration.

Christy Schrader felt that the timing of the Image Preference Survey is important and would like to see it delayed for a time. Nan said that she isn’t ready to do the Image Preference Survey yet and wants to have the snow melted before taking pictures. There is time to do the survey within the next 3-4 months. Steve asked Nan if a “no later than” decision point could be made on the Image Preference Survey. Nan said that the survey should be done before the goals which would be done in June/July. She suggested it be done before early summer. Steve suggested waiting until April/May to make the final decision on the Image Preference Survey.

On the photo simulations it was recommended by Steve that the committee not contract for that since it was felt there wouldn’t be much use for it. The committee agreed. It was also recommended to not contract for GEIS. A formal SEQR is required at the end of the Comprehensive Planning process which will ensure that none of the Plans recommendations will have a negative impact in Charlton’s environment. Neither the Planning Board nor the ECC have a compelling requirement for a GEIS. The committee agreed.

The publicity for the March 6th workshop has gone out. The newsletter has been mailed to the residents. Letters went to all the officer holders. The press releases have been sent and information is on the website. Posters are in the schools and in the neighborhood. Steve is getting a loudspeaker and an LCD projector. Deborah will be bringing a laptop. Marv Schorr and Gary Vanderhorst will help Steve set up at the Charlton Freehold Church on Friday, March 5th at 3:30 P.M. Steve will open the church at 8:00 A.M. Saturday morning to start the coffee. Ann Vanderhorst, Sally Ellms, Peggy Gains, Rick Smith and Catherine Caine will be baking goodies for the workshop. The refreshments begin at 9:00 A.M. with the workshop to begin at 9:30. The committee members will be there at 8:30. A greeting table will be set up for Nan and tables for the participants will be set up in a herringbone fashion and there will be a teen table. The overflow area will be the Chapel.

The committee discussed what role they would like to play at the workshop; participants or facilitators. If the group wants to be facilitators Nan would give them 10 minutes of training before the workshop. After discussion the committee decided to have two members at each table. One would be a note-taker and the other would be a facilitator. The facilitator would make sure that each table moves smoothly through the workshop and doesn’t get stuck on a subject. The committee members will also participate in the workshop.

Before moving on to the survey questions, Steve introduced Maria McCulloch, who has experience in survey work. Maria told the group that the survey must be easy to send back. A self-addressed envelope should be included and Maria felt that putting postage on the return envelopes would eliminate the chance of having a certain demographic area not return the survey. Nan’s experience is that there is no increase or decrease in the return of surveys with or without return postage. The committee feels a stamp should be put on for the return of the survey. The survey can be mailed out to the names listed on the town’s mailing list, with “or current resident” listed underneath to cover people moving, marital status, etc. Joyce Riedinger can provide the current mailing list.

The survey needs to be as simple and brief as possible and at the same time be able to produce the information needed. The cost of the survey consists of several things. Printing costs, postage costs, envelope vs. self-mailer costs, and postage on return survey costs. Nan uses a mailing house out of Albany who prints, folds, addresses and stamps the surveys and can include an envelope to return the survey. The fee for that is approximately $1.00/survey. Tabulation of survey results will be a cost, keeping in mind that open-ended questions are more difficult to categorize and will raise the cost, and also the analysis and report of the survey. The tabulation fee would be approximately $2.00/survey. Nan stated that there is usually a 35% return. To hire someone to type the information onto a database would cost approximately $1.00/survey

Maria McCulloch, Deborah Herrin and Jim Leupold volunteered to take all the information to date, look at what went on at the workshop, refine it, and get Nan’s input. It will be sent to the committee members before the next meeting. It’s hoped that this information will help to simplify the open-ended questions on the survey, which in turn will minimize the tabulation costs and improve the objectivity and precision on some of the questions.

Midge Dube brought up the fact that Nan said the large map at the end of the survey could be eliminated. Midge and the committee members felt the map should be eliminated. It was decided to go through each survey question.

Steve Caine suggested, and it was agreed, that there should be a brief introduction to the survey stating that “this survey is meant to document the views of our citizens, not to advocate a particular position.” Jim Leupold also read an introduction that he had written up for comment by the committee members. Steve asked Jim to give his introduction to the subcommittee that will be working on this part of the survey. It was also agreed that each members name will go on the intro.

Dawn Szurek questioned why there will be additional copies of the survey at the town hall? The suggestion was made to have residents call the town hall for additional copies so there will be some control on how many copies a person is requesting. Gail has agreed to record the names of anyone who gets an additional survey.

Survey – Discussion by Question:

The two sentences at the top of the survey will be eliminated.

1.Self-explanatory.
2. Dave Adams suggested asking people what election district they live in to determine the area of town they are in. It was felt that many people wouldn’t know what district they are in. The committee would like to eliminate using the map. After much discussion Dean Durst suggested using “south of Charlton Road, between Charlton Road and Rt. 67, North of Rt. 67, and west of Rt. 147”. The committee agreed to eliminate the map and use the word descriptors. Also, “I do not live in Charlton, however, I do own land in the Town” should stay.

Steve asked Maria’s opinion of using Respondent #1 and #2 through the survey. She disagrees with using two respondents. She feels, at first glance, that it makes the survey look too tedious. Surveys need to look easy. If people see a lot of pages to a survey, it will lessen the chances of people filling them out and returning them. Nan seldom includes spacing for two respondents on surveys and said if someone has a strong opinion, extra surveys are made available. Maria stated that statistically, in the survey, you will have similar results between family members and that by including spacing for two respondents, it doesn’t mean twice the information. It was agreed to eliminate spacing for two respondents on the survey.

3. Eliminate Respondent #1 and #2 and put ____________ years.
4. Remove the categories and have spacing for listing of all ages.

Deborah Herrin suggested that it be asked what school district each household lives in. Dave Adams stated he doesn’t feel the question is necessary and asked what this information would be needed for. After a brief discussion it was decided to continue and discuss this question at a later time.

5. & 6. Nan added both of these but feels the more important one of the two is 6. Change the question from “Why do you continue to”…. to “Why do you live”… Also the committee felt that the answers should not be limited to checking two options, but selecting 5 and putting them in order of importance. Deborah Herrin suggested adding “low growth rate” and “accessibility to cultural activities” as other options

7. Dave Adams suggested adding “no opinion” or “increase as allowed by zoning” as an option. Members felt that many people don’t know what is allowed by zoning. Dean Durst stated that “increase somewhat” denotes what we have. Steve Caine doesn’t feel the word zoning should be used in the survey since it is an implementing tool, not an expression of what people want or do not want. Others concurred. If someone feels they want to control growth in the town they would answer “increase somewhat”. Dave suggested using the words “increase as allowed by approved construction permits”, but Steve stated you have to have a construction permit for all buildings in the Town of Charlton.

8. Maria McCulloch feels this question is too general. Because the question isn’t specific enough, it won’t give enough information. Deborah suggested revising this question after the workshop in the hopes that more specific information will be obtained at the workshop. Also, Marv Schorr recommended defining what period of time is being asked about, e.g., is it more desirable or less desirable compared to what or compared to when?

9. Maria McCulloch stated that these open-ended questions will cost more because they each need an answer to be categorized and will take a longer time to do. Also, some people will be very specific and some very general in answering these kinds of questions. Sometimes you don’t get the information you’re looking for in open-ended questions. Maria feels that 9, 10, 22, and 23 are similar and one of them could possibly be removed. Deborah Herrin thought the questions could be changed to “what do you like and dislike and what do you fear”, and have categories that might come out of the workshop from the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats that could be checked off. Nan stated that people have the most difficulty answering the “opportunity” questions and she would rather hear what is threatening to people. If one question has to be cut, Nan suggested cutting 22. It was decided to fine tune these questions from information received at the workshop.

11. Under public water, “concern for water quality”, Nan suggested asking if it’s pollutant, quantity, color, taste, smell, availability, and other. There would be check boxes. Dave Adams suggested combining No. 11 and 12 by asking “are you serviced by public water, (with a check box), well, (with a check box), other, (with a check box). All agreed to these changes.

13. Steve suggested adding a section for traffic management with an asterisk showing examples below such as, speed limits, visibility, signage, blind spots, safety, enforcement. Steve also suggested crossing off “Type of Service”. Nan was concerned that if someone checks “not satisfied” with traffic management, it won’t be known if they are unhappy with speed limits, signage, etc. Midge Dube asked if it could be a separate question because town services are a concern. Deborah Herrin brought up another addition of “accessibility to town records and officials.” It was agreed to ask this question. After much discussion Nan suggested having a separate question for traffic with a listing of concerns with a yes/no answer, and if they answer yes to a certain topic, such as speeding, ask what area they are concerned about so they can write it in. It was agreed to add this question. Also, under question 13, public water will be removed. Bill Heilman stated that rescue squad and fire protection should be combined and ambulance added. Dawn Szurek asked about including senior services and handicapped accessibility and it was agreed to include these.

14. Maria McCulloch felt that 14 and 17 were similar and somewhat redundant and that they could be put into one question with categories. The categories could have headings that would help to group them, such as housing, services, recreation, shopping, etc. Dave Adams questioned including things in this list that presently are not allowed in the town. Steve Caine stated that the survey is meant to document the views of the citizens and not meant to advocate a particular position. Everything that could be thought up was put on the list so the people have every available option to choose from. It is equally important to specifically document what people do not want as well as what they want. Dave Adams feels that people who are aware of what is allowed in town will be thinking that this committee has grandiose ideas in spite of the caveat at the beginning of the survey. He feels this will start a fire storm that will impair the efforts of this committee. Doug Flynn commented that he believes Dave is remembering the meeting at the beginning of this process at the church, where there was a map showing a proposed trailer park from the old Master Plan and one man was very upset about that. Christy Schrader feels that the committee can’t assume that such topics shouldn’t be included. Peggy Gains noted that question 14 has an answer box for “oppose” but No. 17 does not. The response “oppose” will be included in the combination of the two questions. Deborah Herrin stated in question No. 17, single family residences should be greater than 2 acres and less than 2 acres, not 3. She also suggested adding the word historical to “further development of the hamlet” since the hamlet is in the Historical Register. There was concern on the wordage of the hamlet and the committee will take it under advisement. Dave Adams suggested taking the list of what is allowed in the zoning ordinance and putting it in place of the list given. Nan stated that any land use law must be based upon a Comprehensive Plan. If the town was brought to court over a zoning issue, the court will look at the Comprehensive Plan for the reasoning for the zoning ordinance. If it can’t be shown why certain things were included/excluded, e.g, department stores, it will leave the town vulnerable. Zoning ordinances flow from the Comprehensive Plan, not the other way around. NYS law is clear that all land use laws must be in accordance with the Comprehensive Plan. Dave expressed concern. An initial draft of the survey was sent out and he and Marv Schorr made comments on it, without getting feedback. This was an honest mistake, and will be handled correctly in the future.

15. Nan said that 15, 16, and 18 have similar categories and could all be combined. Under No. 15, a) and b) will be eliminated. Noise pollution will be added. Under No. 18 Senior daycare will be added. Dave Adams wondered if it was wise to ask an opinion on additional recreational opportunities in the town for things that the town doesn’t have the resources to do. Steve and others felt it was important. We have to give our townspeople the chance to express their views.

19. Will be eliminated.

20. & 21. Change the question to read “utilize town funds” instead of “additional property taxes or user fees”. Dave Adams feels leaving in “additional property taxes or user fees” shows the importance of certain items to the people because they would be willing to pay to have them. He suggested asking “what percentage of an increase would you be willing to see” in the question. The language will be worked on for this question.

22. & 23. These will be worked on after the workshop.

Also, Steve suggested separating any questions that have to do with sewer and water and not lumping them together.

Steve opened the meeting to the “privilege of the floor”. Ray Black, Chairman of the Planning Board, had comments. Ray has a concern there is no call to action to energize the town. There is nothing in what the committee is doing that will tell people that there is a change coming that is inevitable unless a different picture is painted of what we want the town to be. If the survey is started with a statement saying that if nothing is done the town has a potential to increase the number of dwelling units by a factor of 100, and the requisite services to support same, and a tax base of possibly 6% to support those services, that’s the call to action. If you cause people to envision how that would affect the town, you would get a greater number of people responding to the survey. If you ask people what they would like the town to be, they envision it as it is today with possibly a single change. They don’t envision 100 new homes and a store. Ray doesn’t know how to impose a call to action on the people so they understand why the questions on the survey are so important. Ray agrees with a Visual Preference Image Survey because a picture is worth a thousand words, and to simply say we face many challenges in the future, there is no definition in that. Ray is concerned that we will get a lot of opinions that don’t go very far into the future. Nan agreed with Ray and stated that the comprehensive plan does include a build-out analysis but it is toward the end of the process. Maria McCulloch said that some questions could be put into the survey to let people know what some possibilities are for the town.

Deborah Herrin asked Nan who she was going to be interviewing. Deb’s interested in getting the perspectives of functional organizations such as DOT. Nan said she will be talking to the appropriate people in the agencies to find out what’s in their plan. She won’t be talking to everyone on the list, but will talk to DOT to see what’s in their current plan and their plans for the future, what’s approved and what are they trying to get approved so we have an idea of where they are headed. The Dept. of Health will be contacted to find out what issues they have for the town and if there are any problems they are aware of and the procedures they go through and how the town fits into those procedures. Steve suggested talking to Bob Lippiello about water issues and Ray Black with the Planning Board for their input.

Dave Wood commented that a lot of good points were brought up tonight and it has been one of the more useful meetings. The diversity of perspectives and other things that were discussed were very good and he was glad to see that they were well received.

Steve said that Nan plans to meet with a group of farmers and get their input in early April.

The next meeting will be April 5th, at 7:00 P.M. Meeting adjourned at 9:45 P.M.