DRAFT

MINUTES, Public Hearing to hear input on the Tentative 2005 Town Budget held at

7:00 P.M. on Monday, October 25, 2004 at the Town Hall.

 

            TOWN OFFICIALS PRESENT:            Councilman Alan Grattidge

                                                                        Councilman Robert Lippiello

                                                                        Councilman Dorothy Mitchell

                                                                        Councilman Sandra Verola

 

Supervisor Acunto was excused.

 

The legal notice appeared in The Gazette on October 15, 2004.

 

The meeting was called to order by Councilman Grattidge.

 

A presentation was given by Anna Jane Abaray of the Burnt Hills Community Library.  In 2002 the library circulation was 144,000.  It went up 11% in 2003 and it is estimated by the end of 2004 the library will have a circulation of 177,000 which is another 11% increase.   All increasing were inner-library loans and the summer reading club.  Their operating budget for 2004 was $427,000.00.  For 2005 their operating budget will be $448,000.00. They have received a Member Item Grant from Mr. Farley which will help them to pay for any other special equipment they will need next year.  A large number of donations have been given to the library for books.  54% of the cardholders are from the Town of Ballston. 18% are from the Town of Charlton or around 900 residents.  17% are from the Town of Glenville.  4% are from the Town of Clifton Park and 4% are from others.  The library is asking the Town of Charlton to increase our contribution to $51,000.00 from this year’s figure of $48,670.00.

 

Nick Verola – Redwood Drive – Said they seem to be basing growth on the amount of items circulated.  Asked if the same people were taking more items or are more people using the library.   Anna Jane said that they know that more people are using the library.  The first two years that they were in the new building, they were issuing 600-700 new cards per year.

 

Jerry Belisle – Stage Road – Our per capita cost at $12.90 is a good deal.

 

Laura Linder – Route 67 – The Burnt Hills Library is inconvenient for some residents of Charlton. 

 

Dick Lupi – Beechwood Avenue – 95 % of the users are in the Burnt Hills/Ballston Lake School District

 

Councilman Grattidge stated that the Town also makes a donation to the Ballston Spa Library and the Galway Library.  He thanked Anna Jane for the presentation.

 

John Tasse – Sweetman Road – It seems like the per cent increases are pretty straight forward at about 4%.  Is there a typo on the assessor’s value or is there something that has dramatically changed with the assessor’s salary?

 

Councilman Grattidge – It is not a typo.  We have had some long discussions with our head assessor over the past year.  We attempted to go to a sole assessor but that was defeated in the referendum.  We found that there is quite a bit of work that falls on the head assessor.  We have decided to make that change in the head assessor’s salary and she will be directing the other 2 elected assessors as far as their job duties and they will be compensated to reflect that.

 

John Tasse – The chairman does more than twice what the other 2 people do?

 

Councilman Grattidge – That is correct.

 

John Tasse – Why does it have to be that way?

 

Councilman Grattidge – We are finding that the head assessor is handling the majority of the work at this point.  We’ve discussed how to compensate for that and still work within the 3 elected assessor system that we have.

 

John Tasse – Relative to other towns, is that consistent with what other towns who have elected or paid assessors are paid?

 

Councilman Grattidge – I think there is only this town and one other town in the county that have three elected assessors.  They have all gone to either a sole elected assessor or a sole appointed assessor.  We are still staying with the system of 3 elected assessors but the majority of the work will be done by the head assessor.

 

John Tasse – Do you know what you would pay for (could not understand).

 

Councilman Grattidge – When we were looking at it last year, we were thinking it would be in the $15,00.00 to $20,000.00 range for a half-time assessor.  It wouldn’t be a full 40 hour per week job.

 

Karen Peper – Eastern Avenue – We are almost doubling the assessor’s salary.  Are we saying we are increasing the town assessor’s office from the 4 hours a week to being a half-time open office for the public?

 

Vicki Hayner – The assessor’s office right now has been open Tuesday and Thursday mornings from 9 AM – Noon and Tuesday evenings from 7 PM – 9 PM.  As we get into January, February and March, Saturday morning hours will be added so that we are more accessible to the public.  Those are the hours that we are accessible to the public.  You also have to realize that there are hours that have to be done where you have to get out into the field.  I can’t be accessible to the public and be out doing fieldwork, etc.  The hours for the public have been added and there has been staffing and we will continue to do that.

 

Ralph Rusilas – Stage Road – When you say clerks, are the clerks the other two people (could not understand)

 

Vicki Hayner – Yes, there are two clerks.  Their title would be Secretary to the Assessors.

 

Councilman Lippiello – There are three assessors, one head assessor and two other assessors that are all elected.  There are two clerks also in the office.  We have the 2004 salary comparisons for assessor.  The Town of Ballston Assessor is paid $29,356.00, Town of Moreau $37,000.00, Town of Providence is $5,142.00 and the Town of Wilton is another $30,000.00 position.  I don’t have numbers for the other towns for this year.

 

Councilman Grattidge – Providence has three assessors.

 

John Tasse – In terms of processing and court rulings and making sure people’s assessments actually get reflected in the bills that are paid, is that included in this or is that some other clerking system that is responsible each time an adjudication is done by the court process?

 

Vicki Hayner – When the court makes a settlement then it is the court’s job to notify the assessing jurisdiction.  All small claims that were handled this summer, it was the court’s job to notify the school tax collector. 

 

John Tasse – Is there any responsibility on the town’s part to make sure the court does their job?

 

Vicki Hayner – No.

 

John Tasse – Could we add that that to this figure, some of that level of effort?

 

Vicki Hayner – It is the assessed property owner’s job to follow up on that.  When people come in and talk to me I inform them as to what they need to do.  I can’t be responsible for making sure every property owner follows up on what they are supposed to do.

 

John Tasse – You have to look at the perception of that person.  That person just won a court case that the assessor’s office had put the wrong figure on, so the town bears no responsibility for that extra hassle and effort that occurred?

 

Vicki Hayner – No.  First of all you are saying that I put the wrong figure on.  The court decided differently than mine.  I may still not agree that that was the wrong figure but then I go by what the court says.  The school district does get notified and I think bills are recalculated but I don’t know that for sure because that is out of my jurisdiction.  Certainly I try and help people along with the process as best I can but there is a limit as to how much can be done by me as the assessor.

 

John Tasse – I had been at a meeting and Mrs. Verola had indicated a desire to do an audit on the books because some kind of review hasn’t occurred on the books since 1997.  Is there any update on that?  Are we going to do that and what would the cost be?

 

Councilman Grattidge – We discussed an audit at the time of preparing the budget.  A preliminary figure was proposed in the $7,000.00 - $10,000.00 range and that item did not get included in the budget.  We did not budget for a full town audit. 

 

John Tasse – Why not?

 

Councilman Grattidge – Speaking for myself I did not feel that there was a need to do a full town audit at this time.  We had have had the State Comptroller’s Office come in.  We had an assessment done two years ago.  I didn’t feel like a full town audit was warranted.  It is certainly something that can be discussed.  If it is an issue that I see a need for I would support it but at this time I did not see a need to spend that kind of money on a full town audit.

 

John Tasse – Did you factor in the fact that we are probably going to go to some kind of bond or note to help build the town hall and it should be verified that the books look good before we go with what amounts to the most major construction project I think Charlton has ever been involved in since I have lived in town?

 

Councilman Grattidge – That wasn’t part of my thinking.

 

Councilman Verola – That was part of mine.

 

Councilman Lippiello – I need to find out more of what we get for $7,000.00 - $10,000.00 before also committing to it.

 

Marv Schorr – We didn’t find that out in the last 7 years since that last audit?  How long does it take us to find that out?

 

Councilman Lippiello – The question was just raised within weeks to go ahead with it.  I have not found out what we get for $7,000.00 -$10,000.00.  What will we know when we are done with that.

 

Nick Verola – When was the last external audit this town has had?

 

Councilman Verola – Never.  There has never been one.

 

Nick Verola -  This town has never had an external audit. All the comptroller does is come in and they make recommendations.  They made recommendations over 10 years ago which still haven’t been acted on in this town.  It is the same old story.  Nothing gets done.

 

Councilman Grattidge – I don’t agree with that statement.

 

Nick Verola – It is true.  I’ve read the reports.  The recommendations made from 1992 were the same ones made in 1997 which were the same ones made recently and nothing has been acted upon.  We have financial issues going on in this town and nobody knows what is going on with these finances.  I don’t understand why anybody would say we don’t need and audit.  It doesn’t make any sense to me whatsoever.

 

Dick Lupi – My recollections on these audits from the Comptroller’s Office is that the usual recommendation is that we have surplus monies that are not allocated for any specific use.  Because we choose to run the town in a very fiscally conservative manner and the fact that they (could not understand) these kind of surpluses, the State, which is probably the second largest spender next to the federal government of people’s money, takes issue with that.   I think in some cases we had taken parts of those funds and earmarked them for certain things.  That is the only recommendation that I am familiar with that has ever come out of these audits.  I think every town in Saratoga County probably gets the same kind of recommendation from the Comptroller’s Office.  I think everybody looks at it in the same way.  We manage our money very well.  We are very conservative.  We know what our needs are better than the state does and we think that over the years we have done a good job.  Whether you need to have an independent audit of the books to verify that the system is in control and that the fox isn’t in the hen house that is something else and maybe in some respects that is a good idea.  Seeming that you have really discussed it, I guess it is up to the Board’s judgment to decide what they want to do.

 

Councilman Verola – I think that based on the fact that we are going to be spending what Mr. Tasse was probably very correct in stating is probably the most substantial amount of money the town has ever spent on a single project, that it is very wise and prudent for us to look at the books and determine before we move too far ahead with this town hall project, exactly how much we can actually afford to spend on this building.  An independent audit could help us with that and make sure that all the books are in order so that when we go to borrow the money there is no problem. I think it is a wise thing to do.  I can’t see any reason not to do it.  I don’t think we have to wait for a problem to put internal controls in place and that is why I would like to see it done.

 

Karen Peper – An audit would look at the internal controls.  An independent audit would not be the same as looking at where we should or should not spend the money but would be looking at making sure money is exactly where we think it is and that it is being accounted for in a proper way.  In a business sense, most professional places welcome an audit to make sure there is not anything else going on.  I would think if you have not had one in 10 or 12 years, this would be a time to do it unless there is a reason that people don’t want one done.  Back to the salary increase, in this financial plan is it reasonable to be giving almost 100% increase in anyone’s job?  I don’t know of any field anywhere that has that kind of substantial pay increase.

 

Councilman Lippiello – If you will look at that department and the line below that there is a reduction of about $1,600.00 in the 2 other assessor positions.  In the department there isn’t a total amount going to the chairman.  Two or three years ago when we looked at the position of a full time sole assessor, in that position I would have been surprised if we could have gotten away with $15,000.00 - $18,000.00 a year for that person.   (Changed tape)  Paying someone $6,000.00 - $7,000.00 is not the kind of salary that draws people who are willing to put in the kind of time it takes to do that job.  I think we need to make those positions attractive to people in the community.

 

Karen Peper – Doubling the salary is not what any of the rest of the residents of Charlton are receiving anywhere.  If you were in a position even with a strong union you might be negotiating 2 ½% to 31/2 %  (Could not understand)

 

Dick Lupi – The increase that has been talked about here, I thought I understood earlier that that is based on the fact that the person involved is putting more time in than previously.  I don’t know what the per hour rate would be for the Assessor’s Chairman this year vs. next year.  If in fact her time is being doubled or more, it would seem like there is justification for the increase.

 

Councilman Grattidge – Many of these positions on here are what we almost consider volunteer positions and the assessors traditionally through the years had been along those lines.  I think there has been a great increase in the requirements both through the training and work load that the assessors office has to go through now and it is a recognition that we have to be fair with our compensation if we are asking somebody to put the kind of time in that it takes to perform that job properly.  We all know from last year how important it is to perform that job properly.  It isn’t fair to ask someone to come in with a salary position and be making less than the clerks to put in the kind of time that you would need.  With the other assessors, their salary will depend on the level of the training that they go through and how much workload they are able to handle.  These are all reviewed on an annual basis.

 

Councilman Lippiello – We are looking at a 20-30 hour per week position.

 

Nick Verola – How much money is the Town Board allotting for fireworks?

 

Councilman Grattidge – The celebrations line on the budget was $11,000.00.  That included Party In The Park and the park concerts we had.  Last year we spent $5,000.00 on the fireworks.

 

Nick Verola – I don’t understand how we have the money for that but we don’t have the money for something as basic as an audit.  It seems we have money for frills but we don’t want to spend the money on basics.

 

John Tasse – The General Government Support went up 18%.  There is a 4% increase in salaries.  What were some of the drivers that made that go up 18%?

 

Councilman Grattidge – The $1,700,000.00 compared with the $1,840,000.00?

 

John Tasse – No.  On the last page under General Appropriations, General Government Support.  It went from $440,000 in 2004 to $520,000.00 in 2005.  How much did we amend 2004 by?   Why did it go up 18% from 2004 to 2005?  What drove that?

 

Kathy Hanley – For the Article 78 issue we appropriated $20,000.00.  We don’t know how much that is going to be.  We put in for a grant writer for Records Management.  We put in for a server for the computers of $10,000.00.  We put in for a new police car of $25,000.00.

 

John Tasse – That would basically cover it.

 

Councilman Grattidge – There will be no town tax and no highway tax again this year and no separate library tax.  Their grant is part of this overall budget.  We take it out of our general fund rather than assessing people individually.

 

John Tasse – How would we know that if there is no income figures?  We have no idea what the reserve is or whatever that is.  Even if these are rational numbers (could not understand).

 

Kathy Hanley – I can tell you (could not understand) anticipated revenue for general.  Sales tax of $285,000.00, franchise fees of $10,000.00, $1,300.00-$1,500.00 from clerk fees, safety inspection fees of $4,500.00, zoning fees of $500.00, Planning Board fees of $2,000.00,                                                                                        State Police reimbursement of $1,000.00, interest earned of $7,000.00, fines and forfeitures from the court of $5,000.00, state aid per capita of $25,611.00, mortgage tax of $30,000.00 with an unexpended balance of $583,000.00 to balance the budget for general.  That comes out to a budget total of $957,570.00.

 

Councilman Grattidge – There are copies of the Town Budget available in the Town Clerk’s office.

 

Karen Peper – What is the Article 78?

 

Councilman Grattidge – That was the Crooked Street law suit.  We will move on to our Agenda Meeting in 10 minutes.  After our Agenda Meeting we have a presentation by the Town Architect, Paul Vosburgh on some preliminary views of the new town hall.  After that meeting we will have a workshop with the Historic District Commission.

 

After everyone had an opportunity to speak who wished, the meeting was adjourned at

 8:00 P.M.

 

                                                                        Respectfully submitted,

 

 

 

                                                                        Gail Hanchar

                                                                        Town Clerk