Agenda Meeting Minutes

DRAFT

June 28, 2004

Those present: Dot, Alan, Fred, Bob and Sandy

The meeting began at 7:30 P.M.

There will be an executive session following the meeting to discuss a personnel matter and to discuss litigation. Bob VanVranken will be here and someone from Tabner, Ryan and Keniry.

The bills were checked this morning. The Board approved the preparation of the abstract and payment of bills.

Supervisor’s Report will include:

The June expenditures which will be a combination of the month of May as well as they were not audited until June.

There will be a concert on the 28^th at 7:30 P.M.

Fred will be out of town during the next pay period. Alan will sign the checks.

The constables were given a palm scanner. They will be giving a presentation but need more schooling. It will probably be given in August. The scanner scans licenses and registrations to see if they are valid. It was a $1,400.00 item. Fred was able to negotiate with the Saratoga County Traffic Advisory Board to get this one.

Sandy would like to have the Assessors come in and give us a detailed report on what happened. She wants to know how many grievances there were, how many they resolved, etc. The Final Roll was submitted today. Dot said that we should be getting a report from the Board of Review. Their work is completed. Bob will ask them to come to the July meeting. If that is not good for them, we will ask them to come in August.

Dot mention at the Town Board Meeting that the senior group which met for the Comprehensive Plan felt that there was a need for seniors and their families to be more aware of services that are available to them. It was decided we could have a presentation during the September Town Board Meeting and also communicate through the newsletter.

We received a communication from Egan Realty that property on Jockey Street near the highway garage is for sale. It is 2.06 acres. The frontage is 210 feet. It is assessed at $6,200.00. The asking price is $49,900.00. It is believed that part of it is in wetlands. Alan said that before we would be interested in that land we would have to talk to the man west of the firehouse to see what his feelings would be in giving us rights across his property, which is between the highway garage and the property that is for sale. Alan had a casual conversation with him. There were no conclusions. The land is of no value to the town if we don’t have a continuous piece of land. We would want that land for storage. It was decided that Alan will talk with him further.

We received a thank you note from the 5K Run Committee thanking all those who participated in helping out for the day.

We received a communication from Heather, who does the clerical work for the newsletter, asking that she be given an email address so that items can be directly emailed to her without her having to come and get a hard copy at the town hall. That has been taken care of and should be working.

There will be a budget transfer to cover the cost of the dunks we purchased.

Councilman Reports:

Sandy – Maggie Schmidt has gotten some Local Law filings from other towns. The Town Board members, the Planning Board Attorney and Bob VanVranken have copies.

Sandy would like to have everyone review them and see which ones would work best for the Planning and Zoning Boards in order to better use their alternates. Fred and Sandy like the one from the Town of Somerset.

Sandy said we are ordering a couple of filing cabinets. Kathy got prices on fireproof filing cabinets. The fireproof cabinets before 7/1/04 will be $1,996.00. After 7/1/04 they will be $2,123.00. It is a lot more than a regular file cabinet. A regular filing cabinet is under $300.00. Sandy has ordered the tax collector a regular file cabinet. She did not request a fireproof cabinet. It was decided they would determine what kind of file cabinet to order on a case by case basis depending what it would be needed for.

Alan – There will be a meeting of the building committee at the Town Hall on Wednesday,

July 21 at 7:30 P.M. They will be making a few changes in the floor plan. The draftsman will be giving us some elevation drawings. The minutes from the last meeting will be placed on the web site.

The Chairman of the Planning Board has indicated he might be needing some additional help with the administrative duties that he is finding need to be done. Alan said he told him that this would generally fall under the context of the budget. He encouraged him to see if the secretary that they already have could do some additional work.

There was a spirited discussion about some of the items that Alan brought up at the last Agenda Meeting. Alan said that he indicated to the Planning Board that he was still doing more research and gathering more information.

Dot – Encouraged everyone to attend the Image Survey on Thursday, July 1 at the Charlton Freehold Academy. There will be a meeting after that to continue to discuss the water survey.

Jim Leupold, Chairman for the Water Study Subcommittee of the Comprehensive Plan Committee – Informed the Board of the progress that the Water Study Subcommittee has made so far. During the first week of April I was asked to Chair the Water Study Subcommittee. Nan Stolzenberg, the consultant that the Board has hired to help develop a Comprehensive Plan, has recommended that we solicit proposals from two hydrolysis companies that she has worked with in the past with other towns. I developed a list of questions and met with Sterling Environmental on April 22 and with Aqua Geo Science on April 27. The two companies submitted their proposals on the third week of May. I then met with Nan, Deb Herrin and Steve Caine to discuss the proposals and costs and the items that were included in those proposals on June 6 following Nan Stolzenberg’s meeting with the senior citizens. On June 16, I then met with other sub-committee members which included Dot Mitchell, Marv Schorr, Deb Herrin and Nan to discuss those proposals. Bob Lippiello, our liaison, was ill that day. At that meeting we decided to select items that were important from both proposals and consolidate them into one document to try to keep costs at a minimum as well as creating one consistent requirement (could not understand). We have asked the companies to submit these updates to us along with the description of the work that they will perform for each of the different items that we selected. We are now waiting for their responses. We will be providing the Board members with packets in early July which will describe what companies we recommend, the scope of the work that will be performed and the cost associated with each item. We are looking to see if the Town Board will authorize the Supervisor to sign a contract with the company that we select or recommend. We are looking to do that at the July 26 Agenda Meeting.

Fred – How lengthy will the contract be? Normally contracts of any nature would be under the review of counsel.

Jim- I don’t think it will be a lengthy contract or a lot of things that will need to be run through counsel. The information that they will basically be providing for us would be their expertise and knowledge in where areas of recharge are, where aquifers are, everything that talks about groundwater and where the water is coming from --- not just to identify where those sources are but also to help us figure out what we can do to protect those areas.

Fred – Is that all part of the email we got today?

Jim – That was the proposal, the result of what we consolidated (could not understand) companies. We ended up submitting that letter to Aqua Geo Science and Sterling Environmental.

Sandy – What kind of money do you think we are talking about?

Jim – The initial proposal from one company was around $21,000.00 but they were talking about doing a lot of extra things in the terms of a survey with issues pertaining to well water. That is one of the items that will not be part of this. What we are basically looking for them to do is not provide us detailed maps and a lot of items that will be lengthy and time consuming and add to the cost. What we are looking for is their expertise. We already have the ability to generate our own maps through Nan and ?. We need them to identify for us on a new map where the recharge areas are and where the aquifers potentially could be.

Sandy – Did they give you any kind of indication as to how much this will cost? I know you are waiting for a price.

Jim – I would guess between $12,000.00 and $15,000.00. Even then the Board could pick and choose the items that they want.

Fred – You are asking for 6 different costs and descriptions. You may not want to do

all 6?

Jim – The ones we chose and consolidated, we feel are very important and are needed to do a good study. Depending on what the results are of whether they are going to be given back to us describing the scope of work along with what those updated costs will be, might change our mind in terms of which ones we actually pick. Initially, working on both proposals and what was available to us by the two companies, we felt these were the items between the two companies that were needed as a bare minimum in the different proposals.

Fred – Who would be the person within our group who would determine if they are trying to sell us a Cadillac or a Chevrolet?

Jim – Because Nan has worked with them extensively with other towns, I think she would have the most expertise. She has helped us out determining what she feels are the key elements that are needed in order for us to do a good water study. After we get the proposals back and see what the scope of work is and what the costs are, we would look those over and present that to the Board in terms of making a recommendation as to which items we feel are important. What is good about the study and the timing of doing it now is that we are on a roll in terms of the Comprehensive Plan. We feel this is a key integral part especially with all that is taking place around us in the surrounding communities. The information that these two companies will be giving us is information that does not change. For the most part, aquifer recharge areas and water pretty much stay the same. This is information that could be used many years down the road if it was needed.

Sandy – So that would bring the total of the Comprehensive Plan price up to $33,000.00?

Jim – It is a guess-timate.

Sandy – Assuming it would cost $12,000.00. You have been budgeted $21,000.00. This is above and beyond what has already been budgeted. Correct?

Steve – This is not part of the Comprehensive Plan budget. I think you will find that this aids the Comprehensive Plan significantly. It could be used by other committees.

Sandy – So this would not be for the Comprehensive Plan?

Steve – Yes it would. It would be used by the Comprehensive Plan Committee but would be used by other committees as well. In the end, you will have to make a judgment whether the cost is worth the thousands to the town. We want to give you a precise presentation and precise documents and a logic train that will allow you to hopefully make these choices.

Sandy – I would have to have a lot more information.

Jim – That will be coming in July. We would like to put ourselves on the agenda for the meeting of the 26^th.

Fred – There is no formal request. Just be here. You mention needing the information to run parallel with the Comprehensive Plan, but yet in here when it dealt with measurements, it says “measurements should be completed at high levels in spring and low levels late fall to mid-winter”. If you are going to need those measurements, how is that going to effect the timetable you have set for the Comprehensive Plan? You aren’t going to have an answer to that question.

Steve – I am not sure that that mode of testing is going to be used in whatever investigations these people are proposing to do. Is that dealing with the flood plain or surface water?

Fred – Surface and groundwater.

Steve – There is no way of measuring high and low in groundwater. That must be surface water. That is talking about a connection between surface water and ground water. These are all questions you are going to want to ask. All we are trying to do is lay out the schedule. We are going to come to you with a package that says why we want to do this. Why we want to do it now. Here’s the proposal. Here is why we selected this company. Here is what we are hoping to have happen. All this is coming in early July.

Fred – This Board can come back with three answers: yes, no or maybe. What does that do to your plan?

Jim – What we are looking to do is wrap up the Comprehensive Plan sometime around October or November. What the companies are saying is that they need about two month’s worth of work to complete the additional round of proposals. What we are trying to do is get the authorization so that they can begin that work and hopefully accomplish it between the months of August and September.

Fred – That’s the paper shuffling.

Jim - That’s the actual analysis. The items that were covered in the letter that I sent out with the six bullet items, that is a combination of the two different proposals. It is the key items that we wanted with our understanding that it would take about two months to accomplish that but they said that they could do it between the beginning and middle of October. So working backwards, what we are trying to do is, the sooner that we turn around and make a recommendation and the Board is in agreement with the company that we select, it would give (could not understand) the actual information we will be getting from these studies.

Steve - We are going to get some technical data out of this. You now have in place expertise from Nan and you have a Comprehensive Plan Committee that can take this data from the groundwater study and provide you recommendations. There are a range of possibilities of what to do with the information. We can make recommendations to the Board. You have this thing in place right now. Nan is an expert that is able to do that. You have an infrastructure already there that you have already paid for to do it. There is a time in the comprehensive planning process where if you don’t make a decision by then and you don’t exercise it, it becomes too late. That is what Jim is talking about. In the comprehensive planning process, we are gathering what the townspeople want and we are getting an understanding of this town’s physical resources and limitations. We are going to identify the issues in the town and then we are going to start building a vision and goals and strategies to reach those goals. At some point it will be too late to push the water study into that. Unless you want to hold up the whole Comprehensive Plan on “maybes” down the road and stop it, you are going to reach a point where we can’t put the data from the water study into the Comprehensive Plan. It takes about 8 weeks to do the water study. We really need a decision at absolutely September at the latest, if you are going to do it. If you don’t do it and you want to do a water study down the road, things might already be happening that are negative and you will have to hire an agency to do the water study. You won’t have a Comprehensive Plan and Steering Committee and consultant any more so you will need to hire people to translate that data into policy recommendations for the Board so you can make decisions on what to do about it. A timely “yes” vote will allow you to take advantage……….We have trimmed this proposal down so it is only drawing out the expertise of the hydraulicist and the company and then Nan will be able to take that and put that into the comprehensive planning process. You have saved money on the water study and you have an infrastructure in place to come up with policy recommendations for you. If you decide not to do it, you won’t have a water study and there are certain things that we want to do to protect the water of the citizens who already live here. We are concerned about certain types of development without knowing where the groundwater supplies are and where the concentrations are of the recharge areas. We are worried about what that might do to the citizens that are here now. You can do it later and it can cost you more.

Sandy – But when you contracted for this, she told you she could do it for $20,000.00 or $21,000.00 and the Board said go for it. Now you are telling us you need an additional $12,000.00 or more.

Steve – It may be something less than that, too.

Sandy - But still you are talking several thousand dollars.

Steve – Here is what happened. We did a public water study. There was discussion in that before that the comprehensive planning was also going to give the town a broader view of water in the town and where things might go. When the comprehensive planning process started, we were very clear on what Nan was going to do and that was to provide maps with things that already existed. There was not expressed by the citizens of the town or the investigation that she was doing anything concerning about groundwater and that have evolved in the process of the Comprehensive Plan. We feel we have an obligation to you and the townspeople to bring this proposal to you to allow you to evaluate it because … There is a question on the survey about water. It will be interesting to see how that comes out. In that question it says, “Do you have public water or do you have well water and do you have any concerns”. I don’t know what the responses are on that yet.

Sandy – I’m sure there are concerns.

Steve – This thing evolved as we were into the comprehensive planning process. We feel we have an obligation to bring this to you. There is a concern out there and there is a lot of antidotal evidence that shows that people are concerned about their groundwater and have problems. I had a lady call me this morning about her groundwater.

Sandy – There are people throughout the town that have to truck water in. That has been going on for years.

Fred – I feel we are heading for another workshop with your group before a decision is made.

Sandy – It is my understanding that what you are asking for is for the Town Board on July 26^th to vote to allow Fred to authorize this expense.

Jim – That would be the ultimate goal. If that is too soon and you don’t feel comfortable or you don’t feel you have enough information to make that decision by all means we can gather and produce for you everything you need to make you comfortable with the decision. It might be a “no”. We feel very strongly that based on the discussions that we have had through the Comprehensive Planning Committee that water definitely is an issue and now is the time to pay for expertise from companies who do this for a living and know a lot more in terms of fracture trace analysis and all the sophisticated terms that talk about groundwater, recharge areas and aquifers. We can take that information and use it for both our Comprehensive Plan as well as down the road should there be other issues related to water.

Sandy – What are Nan’s credentials? I’ve forgotten.

Steve – She has a couple of master’s degrees. She has experience with towns. What I would really ask from the Town Board is to get a clear picture of what you need in order to make a decision “yea” or “nay”. As we move down the road on this, please tells us what information you need to complete your picture so we can get it to you because we believe the best thing to do is to do it in concert with the Comprehensive Plan. You are the ultimate on water. You are the ultimate authority in the town. What we want to do is get you all the things you need and not have the process held up by a lack of timing to get you to a decision as to what you think is best. Obviously we need to get you a lot more information.

Bob – The water bills go out tomorrow.

John has had a problem at the tower with the UPS (Utility Power Service). It is a power back up system. The battery needs to be replaced. It will be $125.00.

Bob asked for a motion tonight to approve additions to the Water Fee Schedule (changed tape). Two items to be added to the schedule are: SR2 Meter at $90.00 and service connections at $14.00 a pair.

Motion made by Councilman Grattidge, seconded by Councilman Mitchell that A Motion to Amend the Water Fee Schedule to Include the SR Meter and Service Connections, be approved:

Approved: Councilman Grattidge Yes

Councilman Lippiello Yes

Councilman Mitchell Yes

Councilman Verola Yes

Supervisor Acunto Yes

Fred – John asked if we were all set with the forms that he needs.

Bob – He should have those. He has made up an additional form for his own bookkeeping.

George – Mark Sorensen looked at the chimney on the warming shelter. George is waiting to hear how much it will cost to fix it. Ron has a new drinking fountain to be installed in the park. The volleyball net is up.

Motion made by Councilman Grattidge, seconded by Councilman Mitchell that A Motion to adjourn to and executive session for litigation and personnel, be approved:

Approved: Councilman Grattidge Yes

Councilman Lippiello Yes

Councilman Mitchell Yes

Councilman Verola Yes

Supervisor Acunto Yes

The meeting adjourned at 8:20 P.M.

The executive session adjourned at 10:00 P.M. It will reconvene at 7:00 P.M. on Monday,

July 12, 2004.

Respectfully submitted,

Gail Hanchar

Town Clerk